Future of Real Cash Virtual World "Economies" - Vipers' speculations for AW Survival

[Viperstrike]

Hi All,

I have been thinking a lot in the past few months about "Real World Economies" with a participant's (person's) ability & freedom to do as they wish in the economy they are participating in as long as they have the education (knowledge), training (skills) & finance to do so within the bounds of the laws governing that real world economy;

And the relationship between real world economies and what is offered in virtual world scenarios such as in RCE "games" like Entropia Universe & upcoming Afterworld Survival.

I would like to share with you some of my speculations of "how I see" the developers at Dedicated Logic "potentially" bridging the gap between the workings of a "real world economy" and related economic activities in the upcoming virtual world "real cash economy game" Afterworld Survival.

I will be discussing a few aspects that could bring greater realism to working, playing, earning, spending & investing real cash in a "virtual world economy".

To do this I will be speculating on the upcoming "Afterworld Survival" and the above mentioned bridging the gap between the real world economy and greater flexibility to explore the potentials of a free market economy through the expanded opportunities & economy workings that player built and operated corporation facilities & vehicles "can bring" with how things (mobs primarily) are "looted" and "processed" in the virtual world economy, from transporting dead mobs (loot) to "Corporation processing facilities" to be processed for their resources, to their use by "manufacturing professionals" to manufacture into end products ready to be sold/used;

Verses the past decade MMO methodology of simply killing something and "looting" it there and then on the spot with service provider set distribution ratios for the mob type & challenge (maturity) undertaken.


^^ Realism check - As if you would really have all the tools onhand to:

• Bottle up fluids from animals, mutants & robots.
• Tools to cut away armoured robot metal casing.
• Tools to remove & store sensitive electronic components and wiring from robots.
• Tools gut animals & mutants for their fluids and other bio resources such as wool & hides.
• Etc.

And to do all this in an instant by simply running over the top of the mob after its death

This simple "past decade" MMO method of looting mobs in a game is too simplistic for "building value into" a virtual world real cash economy with expansive opportunities providing "greater flexibility" in freedom of choice as to what you desire to obtain component/resource wise from the mobs you have hunted.

^^ More on this later in the thread.

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[Viperstrike]

First let us see what information we have to work with thus far on Afterworld Survival.

From the Devs:

http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=3940

At the same, we developing a new, better, larger world. Actually, it has been in development for some time already.

Expect to see a new large world with size of more than 2000 sq.km. (over 500 current “Saransk” zones).

Most of the places are based on the real-world locations.

This new world will appear in a new project called AfterWorld: Survival.

The new project will include all of the "Alpha" features and many other additions and improvements.

Corporations, transport and lots of other cool stuff is going to be implemented in "AfterWorld: Survival" too.

Some of the preview of new world:

• Bigger world will allow to separate crafting machines into levels (so different cities will serve different craft levels).
• The resources will be distributed widely over the whole area.
• Different Quarantine zones with different features.
• More PVP levels (from no PVP through kill-only up to fully lootable PVP zones).

Vehicle Concept Art for Afterworld Survival:


Smaller Vehicles:



^^ General run about vehicle.



^^ Run about vehicle with onboard offensive capabilities.


Medium Sized Vehicles:



^^ Medium armoured liquid product/resource transport vehicle with offensive capabilities.



^^ Medium armoured solid product/resource transport vehicle with offensive capabilities.


Larger Vehicles:



^^ Large solid product/resource transport vehicle.



^^ Large armoured liquid product/resource transport vehicle with offensive capabilities.

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[Viperstrike]

Participant Built, Owned & Operated Corporation Facilities & Shops Concept Art for Afterworld Survival:


Vehicle Support Facilities

Oil Processing Plant:



Refining crude oil purchased from AW bureau Towers & Pumps across Afterworld:

-

Oil Refinery corporation members shall be able to purchase oil from AW bureau owned (Potentially participant leased for a short period using AW certificates but never owned) Oil Towers & Pumps across the "Survival World" using the appropriate liquid transport vehicles.

A transaction fee from the Corporations' crude transport scout/truck driver may be requested by the AW bureau. (Scout Cheque )

AW Bureau crude oil towers and pumps extract crude from the ground at a set rate, if a competing Corporation has visited prior to your corporation, the supply remaining at that particular tower/pump to fill your tanker may not be sufficient to warrant the scout cheque transaction fee requested.

Scouting for another tower/pump across the Afterworld Survival world may be a better option to fill your tanker to its capacity with crude.

Appropriate vehicles to visit AW bureau Towers & Pumps:

-

^^ Some may pump crude oil stored into barrels ready for purchase by "oil refinery corporation members" requiring a medium or large solid item/resource transport vehicle.

-

^^ Others may pump crude and store it in a large liquid storage tank on-site requiring a medium or large liquid transport vehicle to make the purchase of crude oil.


Vehicle Fuel/Repair service station:



Self explanatory, they purchase refined oil for vehicles from oil processing plants and sell this fuel to vehicle owners making a pit stop to refuel & repair their damaged vehicles.

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[Viperstrike]

Participant Built, Owned & Operated Corporation Facilities & Shops Concept Art for Afterworld Survival:


Mob Resource/Loot Processing Facilities & Shops:

I see a future where killing a mob and "looting" the mob will be an action of taking the entire mob as as an object to be transported back to a corporation facility using your transport vehicle to be processed for its resources, components & bio materials.

I will explain later in this thread how this would work and touch lightly on the game mechanics side & RCE accounting side.

Bio processing facility & Shop:

- -

^^ For processing animal and mutant based mobs into bio resources ready to be used by crafters for manufacturing goods.

Blood, Teeth, Claws, Wools, Hides, Testas, Extremities, etc

Mechanics & Technology processing facility & Shop:

No concept pictures for this facility.

I would also expect there would be a mechanics & technology processing facility to process robot mobs into their various components.

Cables, electronic components, scanner & extractor components, armour plates for participant armour, etc.

Appropriate vehicles:

You will need an appropriate vehicle to support resource gathering (inc. mob hunting) runs such as:

OR

^^ For the casual resource gatherer/hunter (Smaller Loads)



^^ For the professional resource gatherer/hunter or team hunters (Medium Loads)



^^ For the facility owner travelling to a city trade/market centre (Large Loads)

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[Viperstrike]

Participant Built, Owned & Operated Corporation Facilities & Shops Concept Art for Afterworld Survival:


Harvested & Mined Resource/Loot Processing Facilities:

Foundry processing facility & Shop:



Chemical processing facility & Shop:



Timber processing facility & Shop:

No concept art for this one


Although you will be able to to use these processing facilities at major city destinations across the Afterworld Survival World;

The above corporation built, owned and operated facilities will also double as a shop front whereby the corporation members will have the ability to place orders up for their needs specific to the facility for purchasing unrefined harvested/mined materials.

Travelling participants who visit (in person) a corporation's facility/shop will be able to check the orders placed for unrefined materials and sell them directly to a corporation member's order without a fee attached.

Crafting professionals looking for refined resources can also visit the shop to purchase a corporation member's refined resources without fee.

The corporation itself having the shop can have members list their refined resources in the shop-front without fee for an unlimited period of time.

Corporation members can also place orders for raw (unrefined) materials specific to their facility to be filled by visiting participants free of charge.

These facilities work well as unattended purchase and sale distribution points for both bulk and general resources specific to member and facility type;

Verses general participant activity requiring vasts amounts of land mass to be travelled on foot or in a vehicle both through safe and unsafe areas with weight limits to reach major city points across Afterworld Survival to do their refining and/or listing of unrefined & refined materials on that city's localised market with listing time limit & sold item fee attached.

Appropriate vehicles:

Corporations members have the luxury if they own a medium or large transport vehicle the ability to visit large city market/trade centres to make bulk stock purchases.

-

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[Viperstrike]

Participant Built, Owned & Operated Corporation Facilities & Shops Concept Art for Afterworld Survival:


Manufacturing/Production Workshop Facilities:



With all the manufacturing based terminals (no refining terminals) the established manufacturing professional will ever need.

Manufacturing Corporation members can place orders for refined resources (Foundry, Chemical, Timber, Bio Facility processed) & components (Bio, Mech/Tech facility processed) to be filled by travelling participants visiting the facility in person - This includes corporation members in the Foundry, Chemical, Bio (textile/medical) refining and Bio & Mech/Tech mob processing business looking to sell their production.

Shop front allows travelling participants to purchase end products and manufacturing corporation members to list this end products without sales fee or time limit attached.


Appropriate vehicles:

All solid based transport vehicles from small to large depending on the task at hand.
Localised market deliveries to list across Afterworld through to pickups of refined resources from other corporations or large city market/trade centres

- - -


Communications Facilities:

-


http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=3528

Second big implementation is about "Voice". The A981 will include "Mobile phones" with simple routine to call each other and, the most powerful feature - voice conferences for societies and teams. The simple press on the button will switch your microphone on and off, with ability to participate in multiple conferences at the same time (though the "talk" mode is single-channel only).
After we receive enough statistics of in-game "voice usage", we may implement privately-owned "Mobile Providers", so the voice communication will be covered by a few player-owned "companies" with all the required back-end (interface for billing, configuration of different plans, discounts, free-minutes, etc).

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[Viperstrike]

MMO games - General loot & looting methodology

Since the late 90s when MMOs started to take off in the marketplace as the next step in playing computer games - Ultima Online comes to mind for me as the first MMO I heavily involved myself in - Looting valued loot has always been key to maintaining the "fun" entertainment aspect of these style games.

However this basic hack, slash, bash, loot and sell ... then wash, rinse and repeat grind is becoming rather mundane & tiring (boring) more than a decade on.

Even with the addition of the mining and crafting spheres to most MMOs to add diversity, there is still not a lot to keep people interested with most going through 'fads' rather than involving themselves with a MMO game for any extended period of time, especially in terms of experiencing a "virtual life".

In all honesty I find most games with a focus primarily on the 3 core spheres of hunt, mine & craft unsuitable for expanding on those aspects associated with developing an economy which is feature rich in supporting expanded activities and opportunities in the areas of avatar progression, entertainment value and for some - a good escape from real life.

The future introduction of vehicles, weight limits and player built, owned and operated corporation facilities in Afterworld I see as an opportunity to expand on the old ways of "looting" in the MMO game context with set distribution ratios for allocating loot out into the environment by using these developments to build upon the free market economy concept in giving the participant greater flexibility in achieving a more specific outcome with the desired activity they wish to under-take.

How I see this flexibility in participant freedom of choice being incorporated into Afterworld ?

Recently the developers of Afterworld progressed in offering flexibility to the participant by giving them the ability to now skill at 100% skill rate if they desire to as long as they are willing to invest in the additional SAU required to unblock levels if their SAU gain rate is less than their skill rate.

Of course the introduction of the skill transfer terminal shortly after was by no accident being a necessary tool to be used in conjunction with the prior skill & SAU rate changes to optimise your skill levels for items you have recently surpassed if your desire is to always stay ahead in required SAU.

Human behaviour though is as such that resistence to change or moreso resistance to progressing along "the road less travelled" in that playing smart where sometimes a small loss or slower can be a far greater gain or faster in the long run is not the choice most make.

Not right away anyway until lessons are learned through experiences undergone.
This is where most may have heard the story of > the Tortoise and the Hare <

Therefore the value of SAU in Afterworld has risen quite significantly and I believe will continue to rise somewhere between the 3 awd to 5 awd mark per 1,000 units.

The above mentioned is the sort of flexibility I would like to see continue in the development of Afterworld Survival, where the participant has greater flexibility to choose what suits them best with their desire to involve themself with Afterworld at any point in time and attached level of commitment at that time.


Afterworld Survival - Envisaged loot & looting methodology


How does this have anything to do with loot & looting in Afterworld ?

What I envisage with the introduction of player built, owned & operated corporations in Afterworld is a method to customize what you can get from hunted loot "to a degree" through processing them in the bio or mech/tech corporation facilities mentioned in post # 4.

When you hunt a bear of any maturity level:

You will not loot light wool, light hide, blood, teeth claws, fine wool, basic hide, rough hide etc that is dictated to you via the loot system as a ratio distribution drop for that kill.

You will loot "Bear Remains" of 'X' points biological processing value weighing 'Y.yyy' Kgs to be transported and sold on a market or directly to a bio processing corporation facility member.

When you hunt a E95 Robot of any maturity level:

You will not loot the E95 specific components

You will loot "E95 Robot Wreckage" of 'X' points mech/tech processing value weighing 'Y.yyy' Kgs to be transported and sold on a market or directly to a mech/tech processing corporation facility member

Or if your heart desires you can take it to a major city centre and process it yourself in that city's processing facility - More on this later

And so on for all Biological mobs (Animals & Mutants) and Mechanical/Technology mobs (Robots & Cyborgs) in Afterworld

How will this loot customization work ?

Each mob will have a specific set of resources/components that can be extracted from the biological remains or robot/cyborg wreckage determined by the developers in that mobs loot table

I would like to see a number as low as five to eight specific choices that are not shared with other mobs (or shared with one, maybe two other mobs) and two common choices.

Examples for bears

Specific - 5 grades of hides - light to durable
Additional specific - Bear Fang, Bear Meat
Common - Animal Blood, Claws

Examples for E95

Specific - Capacitor mF003, Capacitor mF009, EDP NOX128 RD, El-Mot 875, M.O.S.K. Vac.Booster OP
Common - Processed Water, Scavenged Oil

^^ These are just examples to give you an idea on a conceptual level

Mob Biological & Tech/Mech Corporation facility process summary:

1. The member of the bio or mech/tech corporation facility will place the looted biological remains or robot/cyborg wreckage into the processing machine
2. They will then select the resource/component they wish to extract from the remains/wreckage
3. The machine will process the remains/wreckage and produce the selected loot in an amount relative the X number of points of processing value of the inserted remains/wreckage
4. Any remaining points will be randomedly dropped as a common resource available from remains/wreckage if a specific resource/component was selected - ie. Blood, Claws, processed water or scavenged oil for the bear/E95 examples above

Addition:

Processing remains/wreckages may require a small AWD terminal fee based on the 'X' points of processing value for the remains/wreckage processed (Cities/Miltary bases)
and/or may also be driven through M-Note usage for corporation specific resource/component extractions per capita of remain/wreckage processing point values processed.


What if I am not a member of Corporation and do not own or operate one of these Corporation Facilities ?

Fear not ! You will still be able to visit one of the major cities or maybe even one of the large miltary bases which would have all the processing, refining & manufacturing terminals found in player owned & operated corporation facilities

- -

The downside being:

When using these city or miltary base processing, refining & manufacturing terminals you do not get the benefits you would using a corporation facility that you own and are a member of.

Processing biological remains or robot/cyborg wreckage will not give you the ability to extract specific resources/components from it. Instead it will give you a randomly allocated distribution up to the 'X' points processing value specific to the remains/wreckage your proicessing.

Other bonuses you may miss out on being MFC or skill related

I would envisage that using a corporation facility terminal will use not only your current skill/MFC profession levels but also add a bonus on top as a % gained by the corporation as whole divided by the number of contributing members to the skill/MFC profession levels of that specific corporation

^^ Meaning your corporation gains skill/MFC levels through uising its terminals which may grant some members with lacking avatar skills/MFC profession levels the ability to do things they would not be able to do in city locations or solo.


Footnotes:

1. The weight of biological remains & robot/cyborg wreckage that you loot while out hunting mobs is relative to the "number of processing points value" of the dead mob, so don't worry you won't be lugging around 300kg bear remains or E95 robot wrecks in your backpack for each kill to take back to your vehicle for transport.

2. The maturity of the mob you are hunting will still provide all the challenges & skill gains associated with that challenge. The reamins/wreckage for harder challenges of a certain mob requiring greater decay to take down will be allocated based on this decay in the 'X' number of processing points value assigned to the looted remains/wreckage which of course will also be heavier to carry since more can be extracted from it.

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[Viperstrike]

Envisaged/Suggested loot & looting methodology - RCE service provider accounting.

As all are aware for Afterworld to be a non gambling service - ie. Not requiring a gambling license to operate - Dedicated Logic must prove that all participant funds are accounted for of which their revenue is generated and the remainder returned to the participant by means of the mechanisms of the service offering in an ethical timeframe.

Participants can not pay for other peoples gain without being in full control of such payments - ie. Not via an act of the service providers' systems where loss of participant control is attributed.

All decay you generate in AW is accounted for in that it turned into Skill, SAU, Items & Loot through normal means of participating in the service;

How does this relate to the new envisaged/suggested method of looting mobs in Afterworld and did any accounting change vs the current system ?

Firstly, nothing changes as far as the amount of loot decay units allocated back to you.

Present day loot distribution example:

Bear killed & looted

You received:

255g of light hide
145g of animal blood
2.43 kgs of bear meat.

You will instead receive "Bear Remains" of 'X' processing units value which is worth exactly the same as the total decay units given back in the above loot distribution example.
This will be the same for any looted mob, instead of the resource & component loot you presently get, you will receive biological remains or robot/cyborg wreckage of the same decay unit value.

All that has changed is an additional step & mechanisms in your ability to customize what you can extract from the remains/wreckage using player owned corporation processing facilities;
Or alternative random distribution for the remains/wreckage if processed at a non-corporation terminal such as those found at major cities or miltary bases as outlined in post # 7.


Envisaged/Suggested loot & looting methodology - Future Applications & Benefits for Afterworld

Recap:

Originally Posted by Viperstrike

Recently the developers of Afterworld progressed in offering flexibility to the participant by giving them the ability to now skill at 100% skill rate if they desire to as long as they are willing to invest in the additional SAU required to unblock levels if their SAU gain rate is less than their skill rate.

Of course the introduction of the skill transfer terminal shortly after was by no accident being a necessary tool to be used in conjunction with the prior skill & SAU rate changes to optimise your skill levels for items you have recently surpassed if your desire is to always stay ahead in required SAU.

Human behaviour though is as such that resistence to change or moreso resistance to progressing along "the road less travelled" in that playing smart where sometimes a small loss or slower can be a far greater gain or faster in the long run is not the choice most make.

Not right away anyway until lessons are learned through experiences undergone.
This is where most may have heard the story of > the Tortoise and the Hare <

Therefore the value of SAU in Afterworld has risen quite significantly and I believe will continue to rise somewhere between the 3 awd to 5 awd mark per 1,000 units.

.

For those who have followed some of my past posts on the tech forums, I made mention to the future development of an economic management system for Afterworld that would reward participants for undertaking certain activties in certain areas of the economy that would boost its activity through meeting demands where supply is lacking.


Where this was first suggested > http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=3864 < Post # 3

As a future implementation:

This extended implementation of globals can lead into the development of a globals management subsystem which can become a part of the overall Afterworld economic management system for the internal participant economy.

An overview of the global management sub-system:

This subsystem being a part of the overall economy management system would reward participants over and above the current implementation of globals of SAU with economic reward SAU globals through keeping record (weekly primary db crunch and analysis) the quantity of each resource & crafted item that exists in the overall economy overall vs a tally for those participants whom have logged in at least once in the last 14 or 30 days;

And then cross-referencing the aboved mentioned with the tally has been listed on the international market ingame vs uptake ratio (sales) over the period.

The SAU global subsystem will determine through distribution rulesets set by AW Devs what there is required to be more of in the economy to maintain its health, diversity and market availability of resources and items across the board in qty/value ratio's set in the distribution rulesets.

The system would then reward participants with SAU globals (At a frequency and amount determined by the management sub-system) as economic stimulus gifts rewarded for producing (hunting, mining, refining, subcomponent manufacture, end product manufacture) that which the participant economy is needed to remove bottlenecks based on rulesets set as a ratio to overall qty in the economy vs recent active participants (14 - 30 day last login) tally.

These can be displayed as global messages for all to see as follows:

A resource was refined (Iron) rewarding XXXX SAU.
A mob was killed (Deer) rewarding XXXX SAU.
A resource was obtained (Beech Log) rewarding XXXX SAU.
A resource was obtained (Lykk Crystals) rewarding XXXX SAU.
A terminal component was manufactured (Animal Blood Serum) rewarding XXX SAU.
A program was manufactured (B&V Cmp Set) rewarding XXX SAU.
A program was manufactured (Axe Riu Light) rewarding XXX SAU.

This will allow participants to make decisions on their own accord as to what activity they would like to undertake in the search for economic SAU reward treasure.

.

More recently > http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=3988

In reply to a participant who was experiencing some of the mentioned difficulties quoted earlier in the recap.

The future implementations that the devs can offer surrounding this change are significant,

- Land Areas offering tax rates paying in % of loot gained from the partiipant (Addition: As remains/wreckage for processing into desired resources/components) and a portion of their SAU from both SAU gain% for items/activties undertaken and globals on that LA with both having an attractive market (SAU especially) over simply gaining AWD currency with no markup value..
- Economic management system that rewards SAU globals based on short falls determined by this subsystem in historical trend analysis undertaken where supply on the market is inadeqaute yet uptake is significant therefore adding a layer of intuitiveness to the system for those players who do their research in identifying these shortfalls and meeting market demand being potentially rewarded with SAU globals.
- The instilling of value into activties that are "non" weapon (melee/firearm) or tool (HK/Scanners) based to re-establish their value in the economy along with resources involved such as Pnotes and therefore resources and items (demand for) required to do Pnote tasks such as the price of QA1 stones and slugs, the price of ammo for those buying to save time over picking and making their own ammo, etc.
- etc

The applications of this SR vs SAU gain rate change in VU 8.9.4 are rather large in the grander scope of what can be built upon the instilled and retained value of SAU long term which is regulated by the service provider's systems where demand will "always" outstrip supply base on the basic human instict to progress at the fast rate possible.

^^ A basic human behaviour that will never change and can be difficult for each individual to manage in a competitive environment, especially where there are opportunities with real money gain attached.

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Explaining the above suggestions and the new methodology of looting an entire mob to be transported and sold to player owned bio & mech/tech corporation processing facilities for a selected customized extraction of five to eight specific and two common resources and components;

By reducing the number of possible resources/components that can be extracted for each particular biological (animal/mutant) & mech/tech (robot/cyborg) mob the economic manage system shall be able to better assign more specific SAU global rewards for those actively hunting those mobs which the economic management subsystem has flagged as in demand where supply is short.

Part of the SAU reward allocation can be distributed to those hunting these mobs, another part can be more specifically rewarded to corporation members extracting any specifically flagged resources/components that are in low supply creating bottlenecks in overall participation activity levels in Afterworld.

Those who play smart, do their market research and get a feel for what is in high demand yet lacking in supply will gain the benefits of potentially being rewarded with valuable SAU globals they can use or sell on to others in need.

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[Viperstrike]

Some additional discussion about the loot system was presented on the tech forums also.

http://talk.afterworld.ru/?showtopic=4009

Unrelated to corporations & vehicles though relevant in maintaining the future prsperity of the internal economy in Afterworld.

Future speculations & suggestions relating to this were made in the Introducing Afterworld thread on the Entropia Planets sister forum.

http://www.entropiaplanets.com/forum...read.php?t=935 - Post 18 & 21.

However,

My position will always stand at:

We will have to wait and see what the future of AW holds.

We can all speculate but none of us are Devs and no official posted statements from devs have been made in relation to these forms of developments have been made thus far.

I believe other systems to maintain worthwhile participation in Afterworld will be implemented in due time.

[Carebear_Slayer]

Nice writing

I agree with 95% of what you said, but it is as you state in your last sentence... We will not know what the devs are planning to do, but hopefully they will read this, because I think most of us had the same thoughts